PythonForExtremeProgrammers

Much the same reasoning as SmalltalkForExtremeProgrammers but less so. SmallTalk is truely lovely, but Python is less wierd and very practical so for a short session might make for a good tutorial.

IvanM

I did enjoy the lack of type stiffness when I took up python recently. I did find myself thinking more about the dynamics of message sends, and not concentrating on classes and "what I have to implement to be an X".

My biggest criticism of python is that the libraries largely aren't object-oriented. For example:

import sys
import poplib
s = poplib.POP3("spamserver.example.com")
s.user("Luser")
s.pass_("wotevah")
c = s.stat()[0]
for i in range(1,c+1):
        s.dele(i)
s.quit()

There shouldn't be an integer anywhere in this code.

I've already written a TimeStamp? class, and it looks as though I'll have to write a File class soon. (A file shouldn't be a pathname string, and a timestamp shouldn't be the same thing as an integer.... yawn... sigh...) Someone should look at each free-standing function and ask "who should be responsible for doing this?". )

You're very lucky Ivan to have gotten a good start in Smalltalk. Many of us didn't get that chance. There are lots and lots of Smalltalk knockoff languages (Objective-C, Java, Ruby Python, Kew...) that are "less wierd" and "very practical". Just suppose people actually wanted to bootstrap themselves into the real thing.

The point of a Smalltalk session would be to give people a practical opportunity to get past the wierdness. (I've tried working through some Smalltalk exercises on my own, but it's more fun to interact with other people who are still interested in Smalltalk and it does help people learn faster.) As time goes on, it's getting increasingly difficult to feign excitement about how powerful and cool .Net and Java are supposed to be.

--DafyddRees

Though, to be fair to python, the libraries are in a state of constant revision. There is now a datetime module and a SIG just started to revamp the whole email area. Python certainly isn't 'pure-OO' (what was that again?) but thats both a matter of heritage and explicit choice by the designer(s). -- TomAyerst

see SomeLanguageForExtremeProgrammers IvanM